The Hotflash inc podcast

62. OG Menopause Goddess Lynette Sheppard: 'Now there's TOO MUCH information' (REPLAY)

February 12, 2023 Ann Marie McQueen
The Hotflash inc podcast
62. OG Menopause Goddess Lynette Sheppard: 'Now there's TOO MUCH information' (REPLAY)
Show Notes Transcript

Lynette Sheppard is such an important voice in the menopause space because she has such depth of experience and context for this conversation. The former nurse/manager, artist, speaker, advocate and more has, for 17 years now, been the author of The Menopause Goddess Blog. She started it, and gathered a group of 15 women around her, when "the change" started and  "really whooped her upside the head".

Lynette beautifully straddles the space between allopathic and naturopathic worlds, and so she's right there in the moderate middle and has some really great insight about how to pull from both of them in these overloaded, binary times we live in.  She's also on the other side of this transition and has some really key words for those of us wondering if we will ever make it and if we do, whether it will be better than this.

Highlights:

• Why you should feel good about taking HRT
• The difference in approaches between allopathic and naturopathic medicine
• Why the medical establishment is so stubborn
• Why perimenopause is no time to make any sudden moves
• What happens when you get past the horror of the symptoms
• Why you need your own a group of goddessess
• How men seem to change as they get older (menopause)
• Why she thinks lifestyle changes might matter most
• Some really useful relationship and sex life advice
• Why you need to be kinder and gentler to yourself, now more than ever
• Why you need your own Menopause Goddess circle

Where you can find Lynette:

Web: Menopause Goddess Blog 

Join the Hotflash Inc perimenoposse:

Web: hotflashinc.com
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@hotflashinc
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I always say to women, don't make any big decisions during the first year or two. Because you wouldn't want a person who's going through puberty to make life-changing decisions. They're not capable, and this is puberty to the 10th power. Lynette Shepherd, who is a force in this space, and og, dare I say. Is a former nurse manager and artist and speaker, an advocate, book author, and longtime writer of the Menopause Goddess Blog As Lynette writes at her blog Menopause Goddess, the change really whooped her upside the head And she is part of the first generation of women who, while they weren't quite making dance videos about their menopause experience on social media, weren't gonna be suffering in silence either. I think you will love hearing what she did. And what she has to say about this entire transition, whether it's how to approach taking menopause hormone therapy, the difference between allopathic and naturopathic medicine. That divide that still exists today and has been completely exacerbated some of the stubbornness that plagues the medical establishment. Why this is not the time to make any sudden decisions and above all about the true power of having a peri posse to go through this with, and I think you're gonna love what she has to say. Here's the. So I'll just ask you, I'm just so curious as you've been following this for so long, and you're an a registered nurse, right? Lynette? Correct. And an artist? Yes. I mean, I don't practice nursing anymore except for what I do for the menopause blog, but yeah. Yeah. Nurse writer you've written, you've written a book, the menopause God has blog is 16 years now. Yeah, that's about right. Okay. So where were you at when you started this blog? Where, where were you at personally? What drove you to do it? So, as a nurse, I didn't know that much about menopause cuz they didn't teach us that much, quite honestly. We had like a 1300 page textbook for, women and child health and there was about one sentence devoted to it, sort of saying that you stop your periods and basically that's all it. So I wasn't expecting much. I expected, you know, maybe to be warm, a little bit warm once in a while. That was all. And when it hit like a ton of bricks with all these symptoms, I was talking to one of my best friends and she was going through the same thing. I was like, is this normal? Is there something wrong with us? We thought, well, let's find out. So we invited, about a total of 15 women counting us to do a long weekend in Lake Tahoe, what we called a slumber party with a focus. And, uh, and we met to, to see, What are we going through? How is it different or the same for other women? What's happening to us? And unlike our mother's generation, we're not silent. We're like, Hey, what is this? So we got together and we found out that we were not abnormal. That in fact, every woman, that attended, was having some symptoms, whether it was physical, emotional, mental or some combination thereof. And we. So excited to talk to one another and be able to, commiserate and then start to work to, well, what do we do about this? And where do we go from here? So at that time, I guess 16 years ago would be, well after the study came out, I know there was the big scare about hormone therapy. You would, what was it like around then, when you were dealing with your symptoms? Was there a fear of hormone therapy? Generally there was a fear of hormone therapy. Just because of all the, although when I talked to, my physician, who was a, not only an md, but also a homeopath and a naturopath, so he's kind of an, an odd duck in that. He said, look, I've talked to some of the investigators of the WO Women's Health Initiative, and he said there's some design flaws and some ways that they. Looked at the data that left out a lot of things. And so, you know, we talked it over and I did decide to go on bioidentical hormones for a while because, you know, just the symptoms were pretty much overwhelming and, you know, and then so recently they've come out with, you know, you can certainly be on hormones for somewhere between three and five years with no increase in risk. And, you know, they've now re-looked at the women's health in. But yes, there was a lot of fear. And also, since we were in Lake Tahoe on the border of California, There was that feeling like you have, you've given in, you've given up if you take hormones, like you're supposed to do everything naturally. I wanna go back to the hormone therapy, but first I wanna talk about bioidenticals because mm-hmm. You took them. Were they controversial then? Yes and no. I mean, they were controversial in allopathic medicine. But not controversial in naturopath, what we call integrative medicine practitioners, uh, holistic. They used to call it holistic practitioners. Now we call it integrative. It was not controversial there at all. It's the same now. Really? Like, I think in that world, it's not controversial, it's just if you're looking at straight mainstream medicine, they're like, bioidenticals are terrible. But that's interesting to hear the same thing. Okay. So what, what was it you were taking? What did you, what were you prescribed? So I took, progesterone cream. And, um, and that cuz you, there it is true that you don't ever take unopposed, estrogen. That's just like the law. First I had a, um, estradiol patch, which by the way is actually bioidentical even though your Dr. May prescribe it, but they won't call it that. And then I moved on to a cream, a biased cream. Um, And, and that was what it took for a long time. Cuz topical things are a little less hinky than things that you take orally or some other ways. A little less what, sorry? I'd say less hinky, a little less, side effect, a little less, scary, you know, and then you can go all the way to having something implanted that pumps estrogen or progesterone to you, which I, would not be my choice person. And did they help? Like did you, what did you find happened? Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, it completely helped. And I, I personally did not feel, conflicted about it. It's just that becoming the menopause woman, I would have women say to me, oh my God, I'm so sorry. I had to, I caved. I took hormones and I was like, never feel bad about that. Never feel bad. Taking care of yourself or being healthy, you know, that's just, you know, so the societal influences can affect women as well. Um, and, but I, I never had any problem with it. I felt completely comfortable. I felt like we've done the research. I felt like, yeah, let's just do this. And have you gone off of that now? Oh, yes, yes. Okay. I still take progesterone cream, sometimes, I still put it on, but, I haven't had estrogen in a few years and haven't needed it, but it took a long time. Before that really worked its way through, I would say I was probably, you know, I did less and less of it. Instead of doing estrogen every day, it went down to every other day and then once a week and you know, just to, to kind of keep things at a sort of even keel. Did you have any resurgence of symptoms? Yeah. I mean, when I, I, I wouldn't say resurgence, but I still continue to have symptoms. I mean, I've met women in their seventies, and I hate to say this, who say they still get hot flashes every day. And so, you know, that's a little disheartening. But, I can say with all the women I've talked to, it never is as bad as it is in the first year or two. Okay. The first year or two can be really, really rough. We will get through this and it is mostly normal. Yeah, mostly normal You know, what's interesting about bioidenticals to me is I'm learning about all this. Bioidentical, have you heard the term body identical? Yes. So that's what they, that is bioidentical, correct. Like that's the joke of allopathic medicine would just, like, bioidentical is like this crazy thing, but it's actually the hormones that they prescribe just called body identical. Right. That's hysterical To me. That's, that's like, I just find that so strange that that. And if you say bioidentical, like I just, yeah, I just find that crazy. 2021. I will say it, it did get a bad rap when, celebrities, uh, who shall remain nameless, made a big. Splash, you know, was sort of pushing that and you're like, no, you don't really get your medical advice from a celebrity, right. Sorry to say. And that, and that I think, was a backlash. You know, there was a, an a backlash from Allopathy going, oh no, you don't, you know, instead of understanding that there really were benefits and, and I think most women are pretty good at. These days at educating themselves and asking good questions. But, I will say that, and there are menopause practitioners now, you know, with the North America Menopause Society and such. And I've met a few that are really terrific. But there's still a real. Lack of knowledge and understanding with OB GYNs generally. Well, okay, so I think they're also controversial cuz progesterone cream. That seems to be really controversial these days and I, I'm trying to decipher why. I think one reason is that you can't use progesterone cream to oppose estrogen. Like it doesn't work. You have to take proje. If you're gonna have estrogen therapy, you can't just use the progesterone cream. Right. That is not my understanding. you don't wanna take wild yam cream. There is a difference. Wild yam cream is like a precursor to progesterone. And so that's not, but if you take U S P or however it is in whatever country progesterone cream, you are actually taking progesterone. You do not have to take it in a pill. So that is the actual real deal. No wonder women are so confused because there are doctors, you know, on social media saying, Progesterone cream, you can't touch it. It's a, it's a bad thing and it's like, ah, what are you talking about? Because it seems like a nice way to sort of get into it. You know, it's been around since the seventies. There was a physician, John Lee, who, who first started using progesterone cream. Way back in the day. And so it's been around forever. One of our goddesses, one of our original meeting people was at the time c e o and owner of Emerita, which is a natural products for women company. So she could quote you chapter verse of every research study, everything that had been done. And, you know, she eventually sold the company. It's owned by another company now. You know, the more I looked into it, the more I was like, oh, come on. No. So if it is real progesterone, not wild yam cream, not a phytoestrogen cream, but the actual progesterone, the same stuff that you would stick in your mouth, just putting it on your. That's, that opposes estrogen. There's doctors saying it's not yelling, yelling about it on Twitter. So, but there's a lot of people yelling. I was just gonna say, we've got every nutball on the universe on social media, so you really have to let the buyer beware as they say. Yeah, absolutely. And I think also the controversy is pharmaceuticals versus compounding pharmacies and then Yes, you get, you get the allopathic medicine acting. Compounding pharmacies, you know, not regulated. And this is regulated and compounding pharmacies. And it's a funny conversation for me to watch because compounding pharmacies are run by pharmacists who have tons of training. Right. And they're you know, not like some meth lab, like some Walter White. That's what it, they make it. Yeah, you're right. Now I will say this, I mean, they aren't regulated the same way. So again, we're back to let the buyer beware. You should trust your compounding pharmacy. You should, you know, feel comfortable with them. Again, it's a drag that at this time of life when you are so unable to leave, even make a brain cell work that you. So I, I really profoundly wish women would educate themselves before menopause so that it doesn't, you know, hit you upside the head like it did me. But you're right, compounding pharmacies are actual pharmacies and, I have not had any problem. And if you have a integrative medicine practitioner you trust, they will have a pharmacy that they trust and so on and so forth. So, yeah, speaking as this is blasphemous, I'm sure, but speaking as a nurse, who has straddled both areas of integrative practice and allopathic practice. A lot of medicine is like a religion. Like if you're taught something, then that becomes like gospel and, and you will hold onto that for as long as you possibly can, even if there's evidence, actual evidence to the contrary. And so when it becomes a religion, it just becomes solidified instead of, oh, well, what It used to be, oh, you can't reverse heart disease. It's absolutely not possible. And then Dean Ordish came along and he reversed heart disease. So you're like, oh, well, okay, I get, but the amount of time it took that to catch up was astronomical. It was ridiculous. So, you know, it's, not to harshing on medical professionals. We do the best we can. We've been taught. A lot of stuff. And if it went for all that stuff and us remembering that we probably couldn't do the job we do. That said, opening our minds to other possibilities is not always easy. So, I don't mean that you have to be codependent and take care of your doctor. I mean, you have to find a practitioner that you can trust and, that you can actually be a partner in your own healthcare with. And just one last thing on hormone therapy. Another thing that's been pointed out to me is, The allopathic medicine very much focused on estrogen and then progesterone cuz you need it. And then maybe it will do some things. Whereas the integrative naturopathic world is, and, uh, I don't know, you, I'm sure you know Dr. Jerry Lynn Pryor is leading like from University of British Columbia and endocrinologist progesterone. Why not look at progesterone alone? Why? Maybe progesterone is all you need. Maybe start with that. It's not, you know, you don't have to tape her off of it. All that sort of stuff. That's an interesting, was that around too when you, when you were starting out? Yeah, I started with just progesterone in the beginning. Was that divide on estrogen and progesterone there then? Boy, it's hard to know cuz there was so much less, Less out there about all this. That's one of the reasons why we put together our group. There was, there were maybe two websites that I knew of too. One, two, one of'em was, a woman called, oh God, which my menopause blog. And it was really, it was really quite terrific cuz she would just document her journey. And then the other one was one called power surge.com, which but was so busy I couldn't look at it. You know, they had experts in this and that and video running and I was like, oh no, I'm al already overstimulated. But it was good to know they were there. And then anything else was just see your doctor get hormones or don't get hormones. There was nothing available. So even that controversy wasn't out there. But the integrative practitioners, a lot of'em did start, like my doctor did with progesterone and progesterone. Some of the symptoms for me, but by itself was just not enough. And, and I took the estrogen not for symptoms actually, even though I was having dreadful hot flashes. But because, I think one of the things that we don't recognize still is that, around the time of menopause, immune system takes a huge hit. Women who are eat healthy, run exercise, do everything, and they'll get hit with some big thing like lupus. Or rheumatoid arthritis or some big event. And it's like, why? And I just think menopause screws with everything. And so I had had one of those big events, I had, a cardiac virus. Which you might say, oh, that's just coincidental. Except I'd worked in coronary care most of my life, been exposed to those exact viruses. Nothing ever happened. And then I took a trip to Tahiti, caught a cardiac virus, and I got 90% well, and I wasn't back yet. So I went to my doctor and I said, I had this feeling that, you know, I need to shore myself up a little bit. And he said, absolutely, we'll add estrogen. In a month. I was fine. What's you're saying menopause will set you free, but fir first it will really piss you off. How there's so many women there's so many women struggling now, and you're, tell us about the set you free part. Once you get past the initial horror of, the, symptoms. Everything. Brain fog, the, the physical stuff, the inability to think, the emotional maelstrom, whatever, whichever set of symptoms affects you. Once you start getting past that, you'll notice that a lot of times there's an empty nest syndrome, a bunch of stuff that happens around that time, but, You're still fertile in a way. And so the impulse and the urge for creativity starts to rise. And most women I know find that they go, oh, I've always wanted to write paint gardened. I've always wanted the time so that the focus becomes, on, on fertility in a different way. And, and so that you actually become, What you always wanted to be. If that's, I mean, it sounds like too good to be true, but it, I can tell you that every one of the original 15 of us, did indeed go through that and are still going through it and are really happy. Well, I have one more thing. I think we all think the most important remedy we had of all the remedies was each. That group that we went, we, it was like synergy. Having all of us together meant we moved through things faster and more beautifully than we would've done alone. When you're going through it alone, it's in your mind and you're thinking of a symptom and you're like always thinking it's serious. Like there's something seriously wrong with me possibly right now. Oh yeah. What is wrong with, and you're always beating the emotional, did you find the emotional, mental health sort of as like, I just find that I'll blame myself for them, or I'm just like always looking for reasons why I'm feeling down today and like, didn't I eat right yesterday and didn't I, this or that? And my biggest thing is like just. This just, is it I think it's a woman thing that we always look for. What did I do? Definitely and, and I think we get past that during it in menopause. It's like, you know, menopause is under the shit happens category of life. And the thing is you can do everything right and it still might hit you like a speeding freight train. You know, I didn't have any of the emotional symptoms except, anxiety. That was my, my emotional symptom where I just like worry for no reason, like outta nowhere. And that's weird and normal. And so finding out how to, you know, laugh at yourself and deal with that even while it's still going on. But some of the girls in our group had some real. Serious emotional effects. You know, like one of'em would just call me up and cry on the phone, you know? And, and a lot of stuff gets worked through during the menopause transition, stuff that hasn't been paid attention to essentially. So, yeah, I think knowing a, that it's normal and b, that it doesn't last forever is huge. Because once we can get a handle on that, you know, women have babies, women can handle a lot. If we know it's normal and it doesn't last forever. You know, help us, let us know that. And then we go, okay, we got this. You know, it's gonna be ugly for a little while. You talked about there's some stuff get, gets worked out, right? Like this is a time when stuff comes up. Yes. And they're, they're now saying like actual, I think they call them adverse childhood. Experiences, whatever you wanna call it, trauma, whatever. Is that what you're referring to? Whatever stuff you brought? Yes. You stuffed down. Yes. How did you work through that? How did you face up to that stuff? Well, thankfully I had faced up to most of my childhood stuff, before that, so lucky me. But, knowing that I was able to be there for some of the friends and just say like, the woman who cried on the phone for like, I. Look, this is all the crying you didn't do as a kid. Wow. And you are just healing it now. So go ahead and cry. Just like, and, and she says now, years later, she said that was so unbelievably helpful because it really was, she's a go-getter. She's a real energetic, successful, interesting, amazing woman. And. Always was never stopping to feel that hurt or whatever it was. And so when she did feel it, it was pretty overwhelming. You know, it's like all the filters and all the barricades come down. And so during that and, and that seems awful, but it's a really good thing. And you know, so, and here's where I think the group of women can help one another cuz we, we did some compassionate truth telling to one another in that somebody was thinking of doing something, you know, a little bit. Over the top. I always say to women, don't make any big decisions during the first year or two. Because you wouldn't want a person who's going through puberty to make life-changing decisions. They're not capable, and this is puberty to the 10th power. So, You know, if you're thinking, I, you know, it's, it's normal as people to go, I feel horrible. What in my environment is causing this? You know, ah, my husband probably, or my job, or where I live, and you're like, no, it's really an upheaval that's happening internally. Believe me, if those other things really need to be changed, they'll still be there in a year or two. And then you'll know that, oh yeah, that was real. Okay. Jettison, but making those big decisions right from the get go. We're just not in a space to do that. That is very, very, very good advice. Did you have a partner going through this and how did you, how did that work? Did was. If so, were they supportive? Yeah, so, um, I, I'm married and so it was my husband and, you know, it's, it's a little shocking to someone's partner when, let's say libido leaves, like takes an extended vacation and when everything is just like, if you get touched, you know, like, oh, don't touch me. It makes me hot. You know, so everything has changed. I think what what was lucky for us is that having the group so early on in the process and them writing the book, I would read the book as would the other, members of the group. We would read it to our husbands or our spouses or our partner. and reading that, they go, oh, so it's not just you and me, it's like all women and all men are kind of tackling this right now. So how can we help support you through this journey? Otherwise, if you just stay in your own little bubble, I now have, couples that say they read the blog together, ah, that they, you know, that they just sit there and read so they. That's when you get an understanding that this is, this is not a personal thing. Like, oh, I don't like you anymore. Or, I'm changing, I am changing, but not in a, in a way that is going to be detrimental necessarily to our partnership. Yeah. So how can we work this out together? And I think that that's, that's huge. And I still tell women if they say, oh, my husband doesn't understand, I go, just read him the blog or read him the book. Yeah. Because once you know that it's everybody. It's not just the two of you. Then you go, okay, well let's, let's see what we can do about this. Especially men, cuz they like to fix and help. Yeah. So yeah, I, I, I think that that definitely works. And I had, Friends who were gay women in partnership and they go, you think things are tough? You ought to be two women going through menopause at the same time. Yes. That's where they start off So really calling on extra levels of understanding I'm curious, this is a little off topic, but did you ever notice any hormonal changes in your husband? Yeah. He had, he actually had a full on hot flash one day, which he was like, oh my God, this is. I don't know how you guys survived this. But no, you know, men's hormones definitely go down so slowly over time that it's not huge. But, I do notice things. There's an interesting thing that seems to happen. We all notice this in our women's group, is that men start becoming, I think, more, they start adopting more feminine attribute. and women start adapting a few more male attributes that is suddenly, we're now free from child rearing and a whole bunch of other things, and that creativity urge comes up. And so we're doing things, we're putting things out in the world, and whereas our spouse, if he's male, is. Sort of going, oh, can we just like hang out together? Let's, let's just snuggle and watch a movie, or I, you know, so you see some of that happening. And, and it's really disconcerting at first that, uh, we were at a, I'll give you a little anecdote here. We were at a restaurant, my girlfriend that started the group with me and I, and we were at a restaurant and there were, a couple of women talking next to us and, and, They were just, were they talking first or were we, oh, I guess we were. And I was like, oh my gosh, have you noticed that your husband is getting more, like he wants to hang out with you more and just be with you? And she's like, oh yeah. The other day he said, where are you going? And I said, the store. And he goes, can I come with you? And she's like, what? So she said, yeah, I'm totally noticing that. And these. These women at the next table were more older than we were. They were probably late sixties, and they said, girls, we couldn't help but listen to what you were saying. And they go, it gets worse or better depending on your mindset. When woman says, my husband's a high powered c e o and he finally retired and she goes, he wants to do everything with me, he wanted to come to lunch today. And I'm like, no, this is my time with my girlfriend. And she goes, and you don't wanna like shut him down. Cause I love him and I wanna hang out with him, but not like all the time. And, and so we were laughing and then in the middle of it a phone rang. And they go, that's one of the husbands whose phone is. It was mine, and, and it was, and they're cracking up while I'm saying. Yeah, no, lunch is great. Yeah. It's a beautiful day. Yeah. Oh, when? We probably won't be back for another hour or two. Yeah. I think we're gonna do some shopping after, and these women are bawling out of their chairs. I mean, so that's the longer answer to us, to a question, but I like that answer. You know, I feel like it just feels like so much of what we've been told. And we have believed is a lie. Like yeah. That, you know, it's like when I talk to women like you, it sounds like something I, I want a place I want to be. Mm-hmm. that what you've just told me doesn't sound at all like the, you know, fear-based narrative that your husband's gonna get rid of you when you stop being in, go out with a younger woman. Like I know these things happen, but it just seems more and more that they're like a story that we, either we were told or. We made up or maybe a combo. What do you think? I, I think you're right. I think, recently I was reading about something else, but I think it applies here in that we need to story ourselves. We need to really be, and my husband's really good at like, one of the things he's been talking about lady lately is he's really watching, like some of the political stuff and everything. He goes, oh, that's another story we're telling ourselves. You know, beware. That's not, that's like, demonizing another side. It's a story. It's not real. And, and so him saying that, but sort of, and then hearing this woman writer saying, we need to restore ourselves. I think you're exactly right. You know, because it's always somebody amorphous out there. You know, certainly there are men who have left their wives. For younger women, it is not the rule. It's, it's, you know, it's unusual. By the same token, I would say, well, what if you're going through menopause and you're feeling, that lack of libido and that lack of closeness, really be understanding of your spouse too. Like, you're not the only one going through this. So is your spouse. So, Make sure that this person knows that it's not, a rejection and that you do care and you do wanna be close. And, and talking it through is the most important thing. And one of our, goddesses, she, Was most distressed by the lack of libido, going from to zero. And, and her husband didn't know what to do, and they went to couples therapy and they had the great therapist who said, look, take the pressure off once a week. Show up together naked with a smile on your face. You not have to do anything. Just hang out, whatever. Maybe you'll just hold hands. And, and they did that. So the closeness was reestablish. And then after two years she burst into the door of our meeting and said, girls, my libido is back. That's, it's so interesting that you say that because I just saw a video in TikTok. There's this woman in Australia, I love Bridget Polly, and she started making, she did the same thing. She said, my therapist must have told her, but she said, cuz it the, it's that horrible feeling when you don't wanna have sex and you know someone wants to, it's so, Because you're like, I gotta, like pretend I'm busy or It's just a whole thing. It's the worst part. Yeah. It's, and, and that ha that's the one that most needs to be talked about. Yeah, most definitely. And that's why I'd say read, you know, put libido in the search blocks box on the blog and read those together. Because that lets people know, yeah, it's a normal thing. It's a transition. It's not, it's not a permanent. It's just, there's, there's gonna be some bumpiness for a while, and, and if you have a good relationship and you care about each other, you will totally get through this and actually be closer. Yeah, I mean, it's true though that some of marriages, when they get to this point, they've had cracks and things that haven't been addressed for a long time. So this adds to the whole thing, right? Like when you Oh, right. Yeah, it does. And, and that's true. In our group, we had. Two, one breakup and one divorce, and one new marriage. And then everybody else, same partners, no change. And you know, so that, that would probably be just representative of any group when you think about it. So, we were smart enough not to make any change. When things were at their worst. Hang on. There's a lot of messaging now about the sort of links between this time in our lives. And the big three, cardiovascular disease, dementia and osteoporosis and mm-hmm. to listen. It's sort of like you better be on hormone therapy if you're not, because you know, you to sort of like, protect yourself from these things. I, I just heard, radio interview the other day where the woman said, clearly you need to be, I ask doctors of this all the time I've never got a clear answer, but a doctor say no, they're like mostly lifestyle is the biggest factor for all three of those. If you are, you know, make sure to have a healthy diet, you move you mm-hmm. you know, manage your stress, that is the number one thing you can do. Um, what do you think about that? I, I agree. The jury's still out as to whether exogenous hormones make any difference to the rest of that later in life. So, I would be sort of saying, no, it is the lifestyle thing. And so it's moving and it's eating well. But, when I say eating well, I also say, don't harsh on yourself. If you pig out on some margaritas on cake, you know, Good for your mental health. You don't wanna do that every day or even maybe every week. But you do wanna do that. You wanna, you know, be a little freer and gentler and kinder with yourself in all aspects. And in terms of osteoporosis, really it is really important to lift weights. And they can be tiny weights. That's the thing. You don't have to, in fact, I would recommend that they be tiny unless, you know, you get as much by slow lifting of tiny weights as you ever would from big weights and, and weightbearing exercise. So walking is like the most amazing exercise you can do for cardiovascular health, for, you know, balance for everything. And I just posted a blog about the Harvard Health Newsletter just came out. they've actually studied how many steps you need. So we were all thinking 10,000 steps, which is, oh my god, a lot of steps and takes a lot of time. And so the reason of 10,000 steps I found out was in the seventies, these Japanese, uh, this Japanese pedometer maker put out their pedometer, and the name meant 10,000 steps. But there's never been any study to say that 10,000 steps is necessary or even good. So at 4,400 steps, you have a dramatic decrease in any cardiovascular events. Um, up to 7,500 you get more benefit, but over 7,500 you're not getting any more benefit. Okay? So don't kill yourself. Aim to aim for that 4,400. That's not hard to do at all. And then you're not overwhelmed where you go, I can't do it, so I'm not gonna do anything, which you know, happens. So, eat, eat, well move. Have a good relationship with yourself primarily before you even, before you even think of somebody else. This is, this is the relationship we really need. We found out we really need to work on more than any other relationship. It's like, Now we have to get to know ourselves and get to know our new selves and become who, who do we wanna be? It's the second half of life here. I almost call it like a hero or a heroin's journey because we're being called to say who are you? Who do you wanna be? How, and you ha how will you take care of yourself to get those? Because you can get it, you can get to this point in life without answering those questions. But I think if you. You're gonna, yeah, it's gonna be really hard. Um, just the, just the Japanese speedometer thing. I swear. Eight glasses of water a day came from the plastic bottle water, bottled water manufacturers. if I had someone who would fund me to do an investigation on that. Yeah, I was, I'm sure of it. It was around the same time. No, I'm grateful to them cuz I've proceeded to drink copious amounts of water ever since that came out. But I think a lot of these things we're told were just, you know, marketing strategies. Oh, absolutely. And, and we just took it as gospel. And why? And, and here's another thing that I will say, it's really good to know our own bodies, you know, and, and not to take any of that as gospel, but to go, oh, You know, my body, does best exercising in the afternoon, and I don't need to exercise that much, and I need to alternate days of doing things and being really gentle and kind with ourselves. And that, that's a positive feedback loop. As we start doing that, then we do more and more healthy things because we really can't help it. And that feels right. And there's all these new things out now. I don't know how new they really are. They're not that new, but they're seem to be catching on. About intuitive eating and you know, instead of a diet or a thing that you do or whatever, which I felt like that for a long time, that your body will tell you and, and sometimes you need a pig out and then you're done. But you feel like, instead of anything being regimented, just like eat when you're hungry, eat what your body really seems to want, make yourself happy, and then it's a lot easier to eat what's best for you, I actually do not weigh myself anymore. Oh wow. About, I stopped a couple years ago cause I realized I can tell what my weight is by my clothes, cuz I don't get rid of my clothes. So it's pretty clear to me when it, when they start to get tight or when they're hanging on me. So. I was like, the only thing that happens when I weigh myself is I start obsessing, I am obsessed. You know, like, oh, that was two tenths of a pound more. And I, I mean, it's silly if you don't do that Good on you, but I do. And so I went, this is, this is not healthy. And so, You know, my husband jokes about it all the time. He goes, he goes, I know, I know you don't weigh yourself, And I was like, Nope, I really don't. And I can tell, you know, when I, when there's a few extra I can tell and I up the exercise or everything goes back to a certain, certain normal and I don't obsess about, I have to look like, you know, an anorexic, teenager. You know, I think our body image stuff is just so crazy and, I talked to a, a ob gyn one time I interviewed him and I just loved him. I, I can't even remember what his thing was, you know, but we got off on the topic of women and weight gain and he said, I feel so badly because all these years I kept telling women, well, calories in, calories out, and you need to lose weight and da, da, da. He said, oh, dear God, my wife went through. And he said, she's the healthiest woman I know, and she put on weight and it wouldn't come off. And he said, so I have a theory that women's bodies were adapted for this. Like in the days when the elder women were the last ones to be fed. And so their bodies had to hang on to calories because they were in the tribes the least productive. Even though their wisdom was referred, they didn't do things. They didn't make babies. They didn't do a lot of the chores. They weren't hunting, and so their bodies adapted he said, I think it's a throwback, the paleolithic. And it's nobody's fault. And he said, I am so much more, so much more compassionate with women now when they come to my practice and they're menopausal. And I go, oh yeah, I know it's tough. You know, he said, and most of the time I say, do what you can, but don't obsess about it. And again, it's back to getting to know your own body and to be, um, cognizant of when it changes and when it needs something different. And it will tell you, it will make it clear, you know, whether you need, probiotics and need to eat more yogurt to keifer it, will let you know. If you pay attention, and that's, that's the big thing is turning our attention inward instead of outward. That's a big piece of this. Yeah. I love it. So you were like the original social media you took to blogs early, but what do you think of all the social media and all the explosion and attention to this area? Recently, I think that, it's a new problem Now, unfortunately, the problem when I started was there wasn't hardly any information. Now the problem is there's a glut of data and information, but how do you sift through that and how do you find out what's relevant? And, and it's, so that's hard. And, and I really feel for women trying to navigate through all the, the stuff that's out there now and how do you know what's right? And, so it's tough. And then I have to fall back on two things and I, I can't stress this first one enough. You must, must, must have a group of women. That you talk about this with, that you meet with I cannot stress enough how important that is. You don't think it's that important, but it's the number one thing. And, and also getting to know your own body and it's a bummer if we haven't gotten to know it before now, but again, that's another part of this turning inwards. So it's only gonna help you. And so to really pay attention to yourself, really pay attention to your own body. And recognizing what works best for you. Like for me, if I exercise needs to be solitary, I don't do well with the exercise and Yammer thing. Some women can do their best exercising if they do it as a social activity. Again, you're finding out who you are, what works for you, and honoring that. And I think. That's huge. And I, I, I'm sorry there's so much information now I'm not totally sorry cuz it's better than when there was none. But I really get how tough it can be to sort through things. It's a lot of work, but I think there might be more yelling now. I think there might be more like, you know, you're doing this or that's bad, yeah. And you know, I, I think if I were just philosophically saying one of the biggest problems, not just with the menopause, what you should do, but with so many things is being right. I think if we stop being right, We leave an opening for other information and wisdom to get in and I think, you know, being right is really screwing with us at this point in time. across the board, but in this too, Linda, I can't thank you enough all the way from Hawaii. You're like the original. You're like the original and menopause. You still blogging, you're still, even though you're past this, you, you can't stop being interested in it. I can't and I mostly can't because of the letters I get. I get, you know, I, I thought a few years ago I thought I had a plan to sort of pull back from it. I had gotten two other women involved. I was, almost 60 then. One woman was 50 and one was 70 and it was so cool cuz the other two women were menopause. So I was like, oh, this is great. We'll get them on board and one or both of them will take over and I'll hike more of a backseat and just talk about the second half of life. And, and life got in the way. The 70 year old, her husband had a big heart attack and she had to retire completely. The 50 year old took a full-time job in a holistic health, thing. I had no time left. And I, I get that and I think that's, so I was, you kind of watch, all right, what's the universe saying? And then I get these letters going, oh my God, I'm so glad I found the blog and I don't know what I do without it. And I go, all right. So I guess I'm in it for the long haul. I mean, you know, I can't, I can't bail. So even though menopause is mostly in my rear view mirror these days, well you reached out to me when I started my newsletter and it was the sweetest thing and I really, really, really appreciate it. You're one of the first people that did that. And the way you look at it is just still just makes me feel. I don't know how to describe it. It's just really beautiful to talk to someone who's been through it and to someone who's so reasonable and who straddles both worlds. It's very reasonable, we need you still talking about it. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Oh, it was a delight. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining me. If you like this conversation, I hope you'll check out some of my other interviews on the Hot Flashing Podcast, subscribe, give a rating, maybe a review, and come back for more next week. Hot Flash Inc. Was created and is hosted by Annemarie McQueen, produced and edited by Sonya Mac. The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational purposes only, and is not intended for the purpose of diagnosing, treating, curing, or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider, read all labels, and he all directions and cautions that accompany the products. 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