The Hotflash inc podcast

72. Morgan Adams will get you to sleep

May 06, 2023 Ann Marie McQueen Episode 72
The Hotflash inc podcast
72. Morgan Adams will get you to sleep
Show Notes Transcript

Morgan Adams is a holistic sleep coach, with two advanced certifications in sleep science coaching. She works withwomen who struggle to get a good night's sleep consistently. 

And that is something she knows all about, because she spent almost a decade using prescription sleeping medication, even though she knew that her overall sleep quality suffered. 

We talk all about her journey to better sleep, her decision to help other people get there too, and how a good night’s sleep actually starts first thing in the morning.

Highlights:

• The scourge of sleep medication 
• Why you want to get outside first thing
• Yes those sunglasses are cute, but…
• Tips to make your phone less attractive 
• The real problem with social media at night
• The role of hormone therapy for sleep in perimenopause 
• Is biohacking your sleep necessary?

And much more…

Where to find Morgan: 

Web: Morganadamswellness.com

IG: @morganadams.wellness

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morgan:

Any melatonin leftover from the night before gets shut off. You boost your serotonin reserves and that prepares the melatonin to be produced the following night. So it's like this beautiful, you know. Symphony of things going on, and it's, it's a really easy intervention.

Ann Marie:

Hi there. I'm Annemarie McQueen, a menopause in midlife journalist. I have 25 years of experience covering science health, and. And I created hot flashing to inform, inspire, and entertain people who go through pairing menopause and menopause, and the people who care about them. This podcast brings you interviews with scientists, doctors, practitioners, entrepreneurs, thought leaders, and more. In the end, our menopause experience is about so much more than ours. Symptoms. I think it's a total and complete mind, body, and soul shift. It's taking radical responsibility for every single part of our lives. It's becoming who we were born to be. It's nothing short of a hero's journey, and I am here walking the path right beside you. We're gonna have fun. So I'm really curious. You're my first person to come on to talk about sleep, which is. Like basically the number one thing plaguing all of us, I think. But you have a really interesting history and into how you made this your life's work. Yes. So insomnia. Prescription pills. Just tell me how that all sort of came about, what you were doing when that got started.

morgan:

I'm almost 53 and when I was about 35, I had a personal crisis, the crisis, basically put me in a position where I had a tremendous hard time falling asleep. I would lie in bed. Pretty much close to two hours, most nights to fall asleep. It's called sleep onset insomnia, you know, the technical term for it. But it was incredibly frustrating and I did not know what to do other than visit my primary care doctor and I was given a prescription for ambient. Which I took, you know, for eight years, pretty much every night. So it did get me to sleep faster. It did, did its job in that way. However, the next day I was so groggy I did not actually feel alert, and fully functioning until close to lunchtime. Right? Which was not good. And it also, Set off these episodes occasionally where I would like binge eat at night, after I'd taken the pill. And, you know, a couple times I would, you know, shop online. Nothing outrageous, but you know, just, it was not a good experience and I. Got the wake up call kind of eight years into it. I was dating my current husband. We were in the early stages of our relationship, and he said to me in a, very loving way, you know, when you take that pill, You kind of act like a zombie and it freaks me out a little bit and I was like, oh, oh my gosh. I just got kind of called out in a loving way, but it made really made me stop and think about why I was still taking these pills. And I really at that moment kind of thought, I need to stop. So I did what I don't recommend other people do and take themselves off the pills without any guidance. So, for those out there who are on sleeping pills, it's best to contact your prescribing provider and that person should be giving you some kind of directions or, or titration schedule. And it's also helpful to have a sleep coach. With you at that time, because it's not always easy to get off the pills. And when you have somebody who can give you that accountability and that support, you're in a much better spot. But I didn't know what I know then. Back then I just was like, okay, I'm just gonna do this myself. I'm just gonna kind of white knuckle it. But I did get myself off the pills successfully, and I slept decently for years after that. I wasn't like a superstar sleeper, but, you know, I was, Relatively satisfied with it. And then there was a plot twist and that plot twist everyone can relate to. That was March of 2020, right when the pandemic started and nobody knew what was going on and my sleep started to suffer again. I. And I got really concerned because I did not want to go back to full-blown insomnia. So I started to be very proactive and I started to, you know, research sleep. I bought this aura ring to track my sleep and with, you know, a few interventions, I was able to get back on track and I was so pleased with how things were going that I just started to organically share on Facebook and, you know, places like that. What I was doing with my sleep and I was just stunned at how many people were like, oh my God, I'm having trouble sleeping too. And later in 2020 I got like a revelation I, I'll never forget where I, my husband and I were taking a walk and I said, I know what I need to do with my life now. I'm going to become a sleep coach for women. And he was like, that's it, you found it. Cuz I'd gone through this breast cancer journey, in 2018 after that breast cancer experience, I, I felt very, very strongly that I wanted to have some kind of a career where I was helping women with their health, but I didn't quite know how that was gonna play out. And when I kind of discovered this, World of sleep. I just got super pumped and I was like, this is gonna be my life's work. And so I was off to the races, you know, and taking courses and getting certifications and I started, you know, coaching women. I think it was summer of 2021 and I've been, at it since. It is just a passion of mine.

Ann Marie:

Okay, so I'm gonna go back to when you were prescribed that medication. Did they, did they tell you you can take it every night, or you should take it every night or,

morgan:

Honestly, I was not given much direction. Okay? And so I have learned a ton about that class of sleeping pills. They're called the Z drugs. And what I've learned is that when you look at the package insert for all of them, it will say pretty clearly they are not meant to be used long term. I think they say somewhere between two and four weeks. However many doctors end up giving refill as needed to, and so you're on it. You're, you're kind of asleep to it in, in a way. And so, you know, really the way that doc, so I don't want to complete, I come at these sleeping pills with a personal bias. Mm-hmm. It's a little bit of a negative bias and I admit that fully, but there is a time and a place for these sleep drugs and it's situations that are acute crises. Like you're going through a divorce, you lost your job, you had a death in the family, something like that to just get you through that rough patch. And so when a physician prescribes a sleeped like that, really they should be having that in mind, and they should have a plan for you as to when you're going to get off the meds. But not many doctors do that. Another thing about these pills that I've learned is that. In 2013, they changed the dosing requirements or the dosing suggestions for women because what they found was that women were sort of getting overdosed because all these tests were done on men. And so I think it was 2014 that I got off the pills. So essentially I'd spent like seven years, you know, taking the, this pill that I was taking too much of. Unbeknownst to me, And that was why there was that grogginess the next day, right? And like, I think it's like 80% of people who take these sleep meds have next day side effects, like grogginess, trouble getting out of bed. And then in 2019 they issued a black box warning. About the Z drugs, Luta, Ambien, Sonata, because they were noting that people were doing very dangerous things under the influence of these drugs driving, violence. I mean, luckily that didn't happen to me, but my gosh, it's a really scary situation to think that you just take a pill to sleep and. You can end up in a dangerous situation hurting yourself or another person. So, I've kind of like slammed these drugs, but you know, without further slamming them. If anyone wants to go to the book, why We Sleep by Dr. Matthew Walker, you will find the most compelling evidence. You know, swaying one from taking a sleeping pill. And I never want to come across as somebody who is judging somebody who's taking a sleeping pill because I so very much relate to that desperation that you've tried everything and you just, need sleep. So I, I totally get why people take them, but. There needs to be sort of a, a reeducation, from doctors with doctors unfortunately only get about two hours of sleep science education in medical school. It's like, which is kind of absurd because we spend a third of our lives sleeping. You know, you would think they'd know a little bit more, but, you know, hopefully in the future that'll change.

Ann Marie:

I have, several people close to me who are. Benzodiazepines, I guess they're called that class, which is. Really addictive and you can't come off them on your own. It's incredibly dangerous to come off them. I think Jordan Peterson even was on them and he, he said, I heard in an interview, say with Joe Rogan where he said, I didn't, when I went on them, I didn't know they were that even like he's in the mental health field and was having such trouble sleeping and got hooked on those. Yes. And so it's like, if you need to sleep, you need to sleep, but. That crisis, like you mentioned, can lead to years down a road.

morgan:

He had a very harrowing story about his, it is very scary to think about how long it takes people to get off those drugs. And you have to like, titrate yourself to the point where you have to have maybe a pharmacist put in a liquid form and you're putting in drops. It's that precise.

Ann Marie:

Yep. You can feel violent. There's people like shaving, like shaving. It's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. But people didn't know. No. And I guess there's nothing's for free, right? The thing is that pharmaceuticals can always be helpful, but you have to kind of be your own coach on that. I've had trouble sleeping here in Abu Dhabi and they're very tight with. Handing out anything that's in any way, a sleeping pill or, even antidepressants. Like people have a lot of trouble getting them. They'll only give them for two weeks at a time or a month at a time. But I know my doctor gave me like four mm That's it. Like, and I was happy with that because yeah, I wouldn't have been able to get addicted to them here. Did they? Just, they wouldn't have allowed it. But I think that kind of caution is as we're gonna talk about sleep is like the building block of everything. So when you went off of it, How long did it take you?

morgan:

Oh, hmm. I would say a couple weeks. I mean, it, it's kind of a blur to me, honestly. Annemarie, it's just, so that kind of, that time of my life wasn't not the greatest. Yeah. Lots of stuff going on, but I, it was not overnight, but it wasn't like strung out over months. Yeah, you did it. You got I did it. I did it, yes.

Ann Marie:

Okay. So when we're talking about sleep, so that's one of the things perhaps that people need to address is, and I understand that life goes on and life goes on and you're like, I need to deal with that, and le need to deal with that. We all have those health things where, and I need to deal with that, but it's a year later and you haven't dealt with it. So would you say that's the number one thing to sort of address is if you're on sleeping medication to. See if it's still working for you and see if you maybe should be asking your doctor some questions about whether you should still be on it.

morgan:

Yeah, I would definitely encourage anyone who's, who's on them to have a conversation with their doctor, to talk about possibly, cutting back or getting off of them. But I really think that you, you need a professional kind of guiding you, so yeah, definitely ask, ask for help.

Ann Marie:

Okay, so Wells, are we doing what, what are we doing wrong? Because when perimenopause happens, one of the first things to go is sleep. And it happens gradually and you can ascribe it to other things, and then it happens differently for different people. Like for me, I started having nightmares and, and I started waking up at 4:00 AM and just not feeling rested. And sometimes I would've insomnia like a whole bunch of things. But, can you speak about that hitting in perimenopause and then just what were we already doing wrong?

morgan:

Yeah, well, I mean, I feel like with women in midlife, we have so much coming at us. We have, we're like kind of the sandwich generation. You know, some, many of us may have, you know, children at home still, and we have potentially aging parents. We're caring for, we may be at the top of their career game. And all of these demands just create a situation where we're go, go, go all the time taking care of others and. The stress, I think is really one of the main components of, you know, our, our sleeping problems and you know, sometimes, We need to kind of take a step back and maybe delegate to some other people in our lives and just, you know, draw tighter boundaries and prioritize our own self-care, you know, taking breaks. Then there's the other component of our hormones, which, you know, are really not so much within our control. We can't really ha ha. Ask for too much help delegating the hormones. So, I'll just share personally that I'm in a situation right now where my sleep over the past couple months has started to suffer and I'm dealing with 4:00 AM wake-ups, and it's starting to really impact me as a person and my, you know, ability to be sharp and focused and. You know, I do all the thing, you know, I quote, do all the things right because this is my work and I'm very, you know, diligent about my sleep hygiene and my habits are pretty tight, right? So I have gotten to the point now where I had a discussion with my doctor about H R T and I was given progesterone, compounded oral progesterone, 25 milligrams, which I found out. Not too long ago, which is quite a low dose. Yeah. I didn't realize at the time, but in talking with a couple other, I've become friends with some menopause specialist on Instagram, and I was like, Hey, um, you know, this is this too low of a dose? And she's like, well, you know, it's usually like one to 300. So I'm like, oh, okay. At the same time that I asked for the progesterone, I also asked for estrogen. And because of my breast cancer history, she was very, she was hesitant and is, is not ready to do that. I have an appointment with her today and I'm going to ask again. Yep. And I have, you know, I have actually done a lot of research and I'll just hold up this book that I read. Called Estrogen Matters. Yep. And there's a whole chapter in it on, um, women who have had breast cancer and taking estrogen during menopause. So, um, you know, I don't, you know, I fe I feel like it's, h r t is one of those things that like, you can, like, it's totally appropriate to like delve into, but I feel like you almost have to kind of. Do the BA foundational stuff first. Like, you can't have like, like, this is just my opinion. I don't think you can have like crappy, like eating habits and exercise habits and, sleep hygiene things going wrong and expect the H R T to fix everything. You know, you've gotta have some of those basic, basic things dialed in, I think for the H R T to work. And again, I was not trained in, menopause or anything like that, but this is just, Sort of what I'm gathering from the information that I've been consuming, you know, podcasts and articles and things like that.

Ann Marie:

Well, it's common sense to me, and I, you know, this seems to be controversial now to say this, right? Because it seems there's all this language to sort of shut down any sort of caveats or discussions around H R T. It's like, There's a group of people that are just like h r t works and everyone should be on it. And I'm a lot more moderate than that and I don't think there's anything wrong with saying like, why wouldn't you get everything, all your ducks in a row? Particularly drinking alcohol, eating processed food, managing stress, like making sure you have good sleep habits. Yeah, exercising, making sure you're going for daily walks. Because I've talked to so many experts who say, When you get those things in order, maybe 50% of women don't need H R T. But where it's controversial is that there's a group of people who say you need H R T no matter what. Yes, and that's very, you know, it's a very individual thing, whether you feel like you need H or T or not, whether you wanna go on it or not. I'm in the middle of this, like, I feel like I should try it.

morgan:

There is a, a very hot debate, around that whole topic. But kind of the way I'm approaching it is like, There, there's literally nothing else I can think of trying, like, right. I've tried, I've tried. I know. I mean, like you list, like you name it, I've tried it. Yes. Because I'm pretty like savvy about the things that are happening, of course, in sleep course. The only thing, the only stone that has been left unturned is the estrogen, well, the, I should say the progesterone. I don't know if I mentioned this. It hasn't really worked for me, the 25. The 25 and I actually this morning did an um, analysis using my ordering data and, and looked at my stats over the past six weeks that I've been on the progesterone there. Really has. The needle hasn't moved. Right. So I'm like, okay. Yeah. I mean, and God knows if the progesterone was working, I would not be asking for supplemental estrogen. There'd be no need to. Yeah. But I'm like, okay, the progesterone isn't quite cutting it. What's the next te? Okay, estrogen like I've done my research, like estrogen looks like the next thing to add on to see, you know,

Ann Marie:

okay. Well we're at, we're at sleep. Just what are some things you would like to see people, just change some quick hits that they can take away.

morgan:

So a, a few of the things that I feel like are foundational and that honestly have worked for my clients and they're very. Doable for most people. So first thing I would say is get morning sun every day. So what that looks like is, you know, shortly after the sun is out, you know, around, there's sort of like Andrew Huberman has done a lot of talking on this and his, his kind of like cutoff point is like nine or 10:00 AM but like if you can get out a little bit earlier, like right when the sun is rising so that you're, there's like a low solar, solar angle. That's ideal. It doesn't always work out because, you know, we have lives that, you know, kids have to get taken to school and we have to go to our jobs and whatever. But if you can get like, 10 minutes of direct sunlight exposure in the morning. It really does a lot of wonders for you. You can't wear sunglasses during this process. It's so funny because I take my dog for a walk every morning cuz I'm practicing what I preach. And I see so many women in the neighborhood with their cute little shades and I'm like, you look real cute with those Gucci shades, but doing nothing to do it.

Ann Marie:

But it's hard at first, isn't it? Like it feels like, cuz I find my eyes are very sensitive lately, like I find, but for some reason when I do the morning sun, it's okay. Like I'm used to it.

morgan:

Yeah, well, interestingly, you know, my eyes are super light and I'm very sensitive to the sun, but I've sort of trained my eyes to adapt without having to wear the sunglasses. Mm-hmm. It's, it's pretty cool. So I only wear sunglasses now when I'm driving and I need'em for safety. You know, there's a safety issue, but the reason why you want your eyes to be exposed to the light is because when your eye, hits, when the sunlight hits your retina. It sends a signal to your super charismatic nucleus, which is your circadian pacemaker, and from there, This amazing cascade of neurotransmitters and hormones goes off. So like your cortisol increases because that gives you energy. Any melatonin leftover from the night before gets shut off. You boost your serotonin reserves and that prepares the melatonin to be produ produced the following night. So it's like this beautiful, you know. Symphony of things going on, and it's, it's a really easy intervention. So, you know, and I've had clients kind of fight me on this a little bit about like, well, it's so cold, you know, or like, you know, maybe they've, maybe they have an injury and they can't walk as, you know, easily. The solution is to, Sit on, you know, your front porch or you know, you, you can't have a window. It has to be, you know, there's no barrier between you and the atmosphere. Just sit there and maybe drink your coffee and meditate or do something, but, you know, expose yourself to the, daylight as soon as you can. It really does work wonders. Another thing that I'll share is the importance of a consistent wake up time. And you know, when I say this to, to clients, they're like, even on the weekend, I'm like, yeah, even on the weekend. Cuz your body's circadian rhythm doesn't know the difference between your weekend and your weekday. And so what this does, it, it really helps to solidify and strengthen your circadian rhythm. And the beauty of. Waking up at the same time every day, is that inadvertently you become sleepy around the same time each night, so then you're getting that consistent bedtime as well. And interestingly, they did a study where they showed that women who had, 60 minutes or less, The consistent wake sleep time had lower body fat than women who had that variance of 90 minutes or more. So it really, it seems so insignificant, but it really can impact, a lot of areas of our life, our hormones, and things like that. So, if that means, you know, getting an alarm clock for the first couple weeks to kind of get you into that pattern, then try that. There's several alarm clocks out these days that don't like yell at you. You know, there's, there's something called the hatch alarm clock, which gives you this kind of gentle, light rising, kind of like mimics the, the sunrise. So, there are many different ways to, to, you know, kind of. If that alarm clock situation worked out. Now if you like, there is a little bit of leeway with like, let's just say for example, you are going out on Friday night and you're out a little bit later and you're like, huh, I, I really would like to get my seven hours of sleep. If you want, you can sleep in by like a half an hour the next morning, you know, if you're getting to bed a little bit later. But if you go past like. You know, an hour or two you could really run into getting what they call social jet lag. And that's basically a jet lag that you're giving yourself, you're not traveling, but you're getting the jet lag, you know, side effects. That anchored wake up time is, is really important. And then I would also say exercise is so important and, Matthew Walker, who is, you know, just a really well-known, sleep scientist, has done this four-part series, on his podcast lately about, exercise. And, you he really reinforces that it's helping with our sleep quality, our sleep onset, our sleep efficiency, our deep sleep, all these different, factors and. One of the things he shared in the most recent episode was that like, it was kind of cool, they, so he did this, he shared this, Stu. Basically they took people who were in midlife and they gave them like three different exercise conditions. It was like moderate intensity aerobic, Intense aerobic and then moderate to intense, strength training. And they found that the the moderate, the moderately intense cardio group did better with sleep than the intense cardio group. So like more is not always better. So like the, the more intense we, sometimes we think the more intense, the better. It's gonna help us. It's gonna build up that sleep pressure. It's not actually, you know, necessarily true. And then he also kind of shattered a little bit of a. Something that is online a lot was as far as sleep timing. A lot of people are like, you know, if you look online about this, you'll see don't exercise too close before bedtime. He, he said in this study that it was okay to exercise up to 90 minutes before you go to sleep. However, in the study he doesn't, it's on men. So I'm like, okay, well that's all helpful for men, but like, what about women in midlife? Like, I'm not so sure, I don't know the answer, but my gut instinct tells me that, for you or me to exercise that close to bedtime, an hour and a half before bedtime might, increase our core temperature enough so that we're too hot to sleep. If I were, you know, Advising a client on her exercise timing, I would probably say try to swing it more towards the, the earlier hours of the day if possible.

Ann Marie:

I've definitely, as a freelancer, sometimes I'll put on my workout clothes on the days that I'm not going into an office and I have the shame of taking those clothes off and not having worked out cuz I got sidetracked. I've learned to let myself off the hook cuz when I was younger, I trained for a half marathon when I was 32 and I'm such a procrastinator, I'd be running at 10 30 at night. Yeah. I'd get my run in, but those days are long gone. So these days I'm like, I have to take those clothes off and call it a day because I left it too late and sleep is more important and then I'll do some stretching or something like

morgan:

yeah. I, I love that strategy because as important as exercise is, you don't want to. Exercise to the point where you're sacrificing your sleep. I believe your sleep has to come before exercise at a certain point in your life.

Ann Marie:

So what are some of the worst things you've heard that people are doing

morgan:

I think the worst thing, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna use a recent client example. We had some fun over this one. She was, In bed at night, like before her bed scrolling, TikTok. And she said to me, it's, it's wrecking my sleep. Like, because it's too stimulating. It's the content is like, I don't use TikTok. I don't wanna use TikTok, but like, according to her, The content was like too stimulating. And I was like, what are you gonna do? Like with the answer seems kind of obvious, right? But I kind of want her, I want her to come to that conclusion. I don't wanna be just like barking orders at her. So she realized because she, she kept a sleep journal, like I provide an online sleep journal for every client. And she was so able to see clearly her sleep rating was so much lower on the nights that she was up with TikTok. And so what we agreed on was that she would have a cutoff time. She would remove her phone from the bedroom. Phone would be in another room that, apart from her bedroom, and that if she needed to, she would have her husband kind of take the phone or say It's time to put your phone away. So like sometimes. You have to have an accountability partner in this, you know, aside from your coach, you know, someone who lives with you or a friend who can text you at nine o'clock, right? Because what we, what we're finding is that, there's just all this talk about, blue light. It's wrecking our sleep and like there is some merit to, to reducing that blue light. We, because it disturbs our melatonin production at night. But we're also seeing more research that is indicating that it's really the content of that, stuff that we watch at night that is, Over stimulating us and preventing us from falling asleep. So yeah, I would just say for people who, are struggling with sleep, you know, be honest and say, Hey, when, when am I cutting myself off from stimulating things that are on electronics, right? Because you could, you could wear blue light blocking glasses till the cows came home. But if you are like scrolling, doom scrolling, seeing really unpleasant news, things come up. Or if you're watching a horror movie, like it doesn't matter if your blue light blocking glasses are on because your brain is overstimulated from the content.

Ann Marie:

The thing is, you're also probably on your phone, so you're checking your messages. You might check your work email, you might see something agitating, like that's another factor, right?

morgan:

Yeah. And another thing people can do to make their phone less attractive to, to, there are a couple things, a couple tricks that people have done. One is to change the way your screen looks so you can put your screen, I don't know the directions off the top of my head, but they're easy to find. You can change your screen to be gray scale so that you're only saying black and white. There's also a way to make your screen, red so that it's only red light. That's, that's a cool trick. Because you, what, what happens is like your interest in scrolling diminishes so much because you're not getting that full experience that you're used to. Yeah. You're like, and then another trick I heard about was, you can look at your phone at night, but only if you're standing up beside your bed. Like you and like, how long are you gonna stand up?

Ann Marie:

Right? I've tried to make these rules. But we gotta remember like these, these hacks are important because this technology is stronger than us. It's

morgan:

Oh yeah, much stronger. It is, it's so tempting. I mean, we, we are, uh, we get a lot of dopamine hits when we pick up our phone and see what's going on, you know, so.

Ann Marie:

Okay. So just some parting words, like what do you think, um, what do you want people to change their minds out about sleep?

morgan:

I would like for people to understand that there's some really, really basic things that you, that you have access to, to get better sleep, but we went over a few of those. You know, I dabble in the biohacking world and there's a lot of sleep, biohacks, you know, equipment and things like that that you can invest in, but. What I would like to say to people is get the foundational parts nailed down before you invest in the biohacking because you, you have so many free tools that nature, God, if you will, has given us, that we can use that are not expensive at all. You know, and if you've exhausted all of those things and you're still like, there needs to be more work done with my sleep, then, you know, maybe by. An ora ring or buy a chili pad or whatever the, the latest hot gadget is. But, don't get crazy, you know, with, with all those gadgets, cuz it can get a little, a little overwhelming, you know? I mean, I love my wara ring, but it's not for everyone, you know, I Okay. Morgan, where can people find you and engage, and how can they engage with you? Yeah, so my website is morgan adams wellness.com. I'm also very active on Instagram. My handle is Morgan Adams dot wellness. And I just this week launched a free mini course that anyone can take. You just go to my website and you'll see at the top, you know, take free mini course, on evening and morning routines. It's called the Sleep Reset. So it's really, it's really talking about evening and morning routines as sort of the foundation to get your sleep back on track. So that's a free resource if anyone wants to do that. I also have a s newsletter. Get it, ha ha. So clever. That's awesome. That just came to me one day. I was like, oh, that's brilliant. Call the s newsletter that comes out every other week. So, that's just got, you know, some sleep tips and insights and things that I don't always talk about on social media. So yeah, anyone who wants to learn more about sleep or talk to me about my coaching, I'd love to hear from them.

Ann Marie:

Aw. Thank you so much. It's so good to connect with you. Thank you so much for joining me. If you like this conversation, I hope you'll check out some of my other interviews on the Hot Flashing Podcast, subscribe, give a rating, maybe a review, and come back for more next week. Hot Flash Inc. Was created and is hosted by Annemarie McQueen, produced and edited by Sonya Mac. The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational purposes only, and is not intended for the purpose of diagnosing, treating, curing, or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider, read all labels, and he all directions and cautions that accompany the products. Information received through the podcast should not be used in place of a consultation or advice. Care provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem, ie. Menopause or anything else or any healthcare questions, please promptly see your healthcare provider. This podcast, including Annemarie McQueen and any producers or editors disclaim any responsibility from any possible adverse effects from the use of any information. Contains herein opinions of guests on this podcast. Are their own, and the podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about a guest's qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. Individuals on this podcast may have direct or indirect financial interest in products or services. Referred to here in this podcast is owned by Hot Flash, Inc. Media.