122: Meet Joe Sealey, the Menopause Man

Joe Sealey is a former UK footballer who is married to UK businesswoman Nicole, and they are both cast members of The Real Housewives of Cheshire. He's also comforting and cracking men and women alike up with his ongoing commentary on living with a woman in menopause. Joe jokes a lot, but he also gets serious about  the challenges and changes experienced during Nicole's perimenopause and menopause, the importance of communication between partners, and how the couple navigates their journey together. Joe also offers some solid menopause tips for men and women alike. 

Find Joe on:
TikTok @Joe_Sealey
Instagram @JoeSealey

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Transcript

Joe: 0:00

she'd be saying things to me like, oh, you know him where we saw him over there. And I was like, what, the kids, like one of the kids, she can't remember no one's name. She couldn't remember dates, what she was done, who she was talking about. And I was getting really worried about her,

0:14

I'm Anne Marie McQueen, journalist and proud 50 ish woman, and we are here looking for the true truth in perimenopause, menopause, midlife, and beyond. Opening our minds to other possibilities is not always easy. Hot flash ink. You're all woman to me. All right, Anne Marie.

Ann Marie: 0:37

I'm introducing my guest this week. It's Joe Seeley. He's a cast member on the Real Housewives of Cheshire. He is a former footballer in the UK and he's a guy who I noticed from TikTok talking about his wife, Nicole, who's on the show as well and a successful business woman. About menopause. And in a really funny way, and he's often sort of like hiding in a closet or saying like she's mental, I met Matt Haycox in Dubai is friends with him. He said, why don't you talk to him? He fixed me up. Now I recorded this at the end of January and then my father died and I completely lost the plot and I didn't do my podcast for a while. I think you guys will still get something from it. I hope you'll hear what I heard, which is just such a sweet, supportive guy, um, who just really Also is hilarious. And I think if we could all have a man like this in our lives, menopause and perimenopause and all of it would be a lot better. I was really impressed by him and it really filled my heart with joy. So I hope you enjoy it. Hi, Joe Seely. How are you? I'm very good. I'm worried. Thank you for having me. I'm very grateful to Matt Haycox for suggesting that I talk to you. You were just in Dubai and I was on his podcast and I like, I know that name and I know a bit about this. The Real Housewives of Cheshire. Very little because I'm not in the UK. I don't get that, you know, but I just thought yeah, I want to know what's going on here. So, and I want everyone else to know what's going on here. So, okay, basically you and your wife Nicole Seely are on The show, The Real Housewives of Cheshire, but that's just the very beginning of the story. So what I want to know is how did you become the TikTok menopause man?

Joe: 2:21

I don't actually know. Um, I'll tell you how I can tell you how it began, um, which is probably the only thing that I do know. Um, I was, we was in the car one day and, um, I was driving to a meeting with her and we were early. So I thought, she's in such a bad mood. I'll tell you what I thought. I thought, I know what I'll do. I'll take her to Nando's. That'll cheer her up. I'll have some food. And it was raining outside. So, and the car park was busy. So I pulled up outside the restaurant. And said, like, don't get wet, you get out and go in. And at the time I was thinking, please get this woman away from me. And, um, as she got out of the car, she went to me. You used to be nicer to me. And shut the door. I then drove a mile away and walked back in the rain. And I picked my phone up and I said something like, Does anybody know of a help group for men living with women with the menopause? Because blah, blah, blah, blah. And they tell the story. I wasn't even on TikTok until that day. And I think that first video got a million hits. Um, and then I started just talking about it. And then I did something once and I went, It's time for the menopause update. And someone who makes Cheshire Housewives said to me, You need to keep doing that. You need to keep doing that before you say it. Before you start. Right. And that's how it's become. The hook. You need the hook. You need the hook. And the other thing is she also has to be doing it. I don't, I can't, I could make it up, I suppose, but I don't. So it's whatever's real at the time.

Ann Marie: 3:50

Okay. Do you usually grab your phone? And when she's done something kind of mental, you, uh,

Joe: 3:56

Not in front of her. I mean, as I said before, Like she never knew I was doing it on six, but she's not on Tik TOK, right? Six months.

Ann Marie: 4:04

Okay. So how did it come out?

Joe: 4:07

Somebody was in hairdressers and I said, have you seen these videos your husband's doing? She doesn't really like stuff like my wife, although she's on a TV show, she's quite private and it was a thing. But then when you start going through my comments, it was, people find it so helpful because I suppose I was bringing it into, I'm not a medic, I'm a businessman, I'm a normal person and I was just putting it across as I. As, as I was seeing it, and, and, and some things I took the, I took the piss out of, and, you know, and it's the way of, I suppose, a bit of humor, keep it light, helps me, helps us, helps other people. Was she angry with you? Yeah, first of all, she was, yeah. A little bit, a little bit. She's like, what is this? And then when you, I said, look at it, go through it. And like some of it she laughed at, some of it was funny, and other things she thought, I'm going to kill you. Um, it was helpful.

Ann Marie: 5:01

And what about the community? Like, what about the response? Who, who is watching the videos and what are they saying?

Joe: 5:08

So this is interesting, interest in this. And I actually did a video the other week, I called them the dying demographic. So my, My demographic is 95 percent women, 40 to death. It's all, it's all menopause or women following, which I was really surprised about, and then I have some men, um, they have other 5 percent of men generally married to men, men, women in the menopause. And I call them the menopause survivors. Um, but yeah, and a lot of it, a lot of it's like, Oh, I do that. And I feel sorry for Ken or whoever the husband is, and I'm going to show him this. And. Stuff like that.

Ann Marie: 5:45

So people have a good sense of humor about being in menopause and perimenopause, right? Like they can spot themselves in what you're saying.

Joe: 5:52

Yeah, yeah, I think so. I mean, perimenopause, I think I started doing this when she was in the menopause. Perimenopause, I think we found quite scary. Ah. I think. And I wish I was doing it then, but I wasn't.

Ann Marie: 6:07

Okay, talk about that a little bit because you, you know the difference and a lot of people don't. I didn't even know about it.

Joe: 6:13

Well, yeah, well, she was already finished perimenopause by the time we found out she was in perimenopause. I actually thought she was going mad. Same. Yeah. A lot of women our age, I'm older than she is, but a lot of us didn't know what was happening. So yeah. Can you talk about that? Why you found it scary and what happened? Well, I thought she was going mad. I thought she was going mad. So her, her basically when she, when she used to have, uh, PMT, she is the worst PMT of any person I've ever met in my life, especially in her thirties. And I was always like, I'm gonna go live at my mom's for four days a month when you're, when you're having your period. And I found that perimenopause was like that, but all of the time. But we didn't know she was in it. And because she, she got a lot of brain fog, then she doesn't get in there and her dad's got dementia. And I started thinking, you'll get, she'd be saying things to me like, oh, you know him where we saw him over there. And I was like, what, the kids, like one of the kids, she can't remember no one's name. She couldn't remember dates, what she was done, who she was talking about. And I was getting really worried about her, um, and her mood, she put weight on. Which bothered her, it didn't bother me. She just felt, I think she felt so unsure about her body. So eventually I, she's not one of them, she never goes to the doctors. But, because of her dad, I said, come on, like we're going to go to the doctors, let's have some blood tests and see that you're okay. Because if you're going to get dementia, we need to do stuff about it now, because I really did think she was getting it. And then when we went, the bloods come back and said, oh no, you've just gone through perimenopause and you're well into your way of the menopause now. Um, and actually the brain fog was stopped. You know, she doesn't, she doesn't get that now, but it was all of the time.

Ann Marie: 7:53

Wow. So that was the worst. That was the worst thing that you noticed.

Joe: 7:56

Yeah. And if you, yeah. How she fell, how she felt in her body, how tired she was, I think your marriage changes. And I think that's quite scary. You start thinking, does he love me? Does he love me? Still? Does she love me? What's going on? You know, you obviously are more irritable, so you're arguing more, you're not talking about it. Um, I mean, communication is key in any, any relationship. Um, but in this especially, I found it. Very helpful. How long would you say that went on? Sorry. Sorry. Um, I think, I think a good two years. Okay. We'll start to finish a good two years. And there was some periods in the middle where I didn't recognize my wife. Did you talk to your friends about it? No, because what, what men do, especially in England, I've noticed that there's a correlation between men that stand in the pub on like a midweek in a circle, I call them the gaggle of men, all going, my wife's driving me mad. And they're all 45 and over. You don't get anyone in their 20s doing that. Okay. And I think that's what men do. I think we go away from the situation to moan about the situation. Right. Instead of actually talking about it or trying to find out what's going on. You're like, Oh my God, she's doing this. She's doing that. And I think it's unhelpful for her and unhelpful for her husband as well.

Ann Marie: 9:23

Do you guys know, like, do you guys talk about, because I know men have joked about it for a long time, like they know, but to put two and two together and do they discuss it with each other?

Joe: 9:36

I, people discuss it with me now because of that, but no, I don't think, I think one of the biggest problems has been historically is that women of older generations and men didn't talk about it. So I had somebody tell me a little while ago that their grandmother still never told him. their grandfather that she's not in a period anymore, but she's in the menopause. Yeah. And that when you, when you say stuff like that, and you think actually this is where the stereotypes come from, because I think I've got friends that I've got friends that are like this, their, their wives, the wife thinks that he's going to leave me because I'm not attractive anymore. I can't have children. And, and, and potentially that's the man does do that, you know, in certain cases, so they don't communicate it. Yeah. Um, it just, it just killed you.

10:20

Did you know I also have a substack? That's just a fancy way of saying I have a newsletter, but listen, it's not like every other newsletter. I am the only journalist in the world who's made menopause my beat. And each week I share research, news, products, tips, and tricks from the world of menopause and midlife. Sometimes I even write an essay. Hot Flash Ink on Substack is where I pull together everything that's here and in the Menosphere. And I break it down just for you. So that we can try and make sense of it all and figure out what to do together. In real time, join more than 5, 000 women, practitioners, CEOs, and more, and become a subscriber today. You can get my podcast as well as special video and audio drops you can't get anywhere else. Sign up today at hotflashinc. substack.

Ann Marie: 11:14

And from a man's perspective, I always say the first symptom of perimenopause is denial because even if I had known about it, I didn't want to be in it because to me, menopause was something I thought would happen when I was 60 and I was kind of going to be old and no one would want me. So I just wonder like, what do men think about it? Like, does it matter to you that. She doesn't have her period anymore and she's not fertile. Like, does that, when you love, does it make any difference?

Joe: 11:43

It made no difference to me whatsoever, but we've got three children. I, you know, I can't comment. She says, she says it would make a difference if we didn't have children, but I can't comment on that because I don't live in that situation, but I really do love my wife. She's the most important thing to me in the world. Whether she's having a period or not, I couldn't, I don't, I don't think about one. I don't think about the other. It's, it's, it's life. Um, and it's just, it's just another,

Ann Marie: 12:08

we're already together. Like if you'd met her and she was going through menopause and you wanted children, obviously probably wouldn't choose to pursue the relationship. I think that I think you'll find that, I think

Joe: 12:20

women think like that. Men don't, I think, I don't think men go, oh, I can't, I, I found this woman. I really, I really like her. I really love her, but oh no, I can't pursue it because she can't have kids. And I,'cause by that point you're probably forties, fifties anyway. Um, and if you haven't had you had kids, you're probably gonna go, you know, marry someone younger and, and, and do that ru But I don't think if you meet the right person, it even comes into the conversation for me. But it, maybe it does.

Ann Marie: 12:48

No, I think I agree with you. Like I thought that. I thought that and then I turned, I turned 50 and I made a video on my 50th birthday and I, you know, cause you just always, society tells you that you're losing when you're a woman and you're getting older, right? And that's kind of the message that you get. But I remember I made this video and I made, did a stupid dance and I tagged it. This is 50 and I had so many DMS. from men that I was like, okay, something's going on here. Like I don't, and that's where I started to think that maybe this is something that we're told men think, but maybe men don't actually think.

Joe: 13:24

I don't think we think, you know, I, you know, as much as I think we'd like to pretend we're deep thinkers into all these men, I don't think we are. I find I don't, especially with my wife. I, I will live in like the day, the minute, the hour, she's living in the hole in the last 10 years or, you know, something I did wrong eight years ago, get pulled up at any moment, at any time. Do you remember when you broke that or do you did the dishwashers or you didn't pick me up from the airport? And I don't even know what she's talking about, but she remembers all that stuff.

Ann Marie: 13:54

And your wife is a tremendous, like she's a very successful businesswoman and a mother. She's built a whole company and very accomplished. So what have you noticed the difference between when she passed into menopause because you're still making the videos.

Joe: 14:08

Yeah, I'm still making the videos and what I see is it changes and, and I think the knowledge of knowing you're in the menopause. It was such a powerful day because all of the stuff you're worrying about has gone because she had cancer as well in a she had a moment of cancer in the car in her 20s. So, all this stuff was going on and all that goes and that stress goes and you just live with it like you live with. You live with your wife. It's, it's no different. Um, you know, we're all complicated creatures and it's just another part of your life and your marriage and, and your momentum together. But sometimes there's things going on and I just go, I go, what the fuck's that? Because, because we have that type of relationship. where I think we have a type of marriage where there is no conversation or nothing because it's that bad that we can't take the piss out of each other or say it. We laugh and I think the laughing Gets rid of all that. Oh my God, you know, because the heat, you know, there's so many different symptoms and she said so many different types of them. I mean, I keep, you know, from itchy ears to irritable legs, hot flushes, tiredness. She's had, she's had the same as most people have. And once one day there, the itchy head, she gets that really bad. Oh, I get that too. Oh, she hates that one. I call it the exorcist. That's the exorcist. No, that's the ape. Sorry. That's an ape. She does that. She's like an ape. Yeah, that's the ape. But no, I think, and I think it's just helping each other to understand what's going on with you because listen, she's not perfect. She doesn't go, Oh, I feel really hormonal today. That's not how it comes out. It would be great if it did. Cause then I could just go for a coffee somewhere. It doesn't, it comes at me as I walk through the front door. Yeah. Yeah, I, I'll get my mop, you know, remember the two meter rule, get back but I'll keep her two meters away at all times.

Ann Marie: 16:11

What did she, what has she done to help her symptoms? Like has she gone the hormone therapy route or

Joe: 16:17

She, she can't do anything like that'cause of cancer. Okay. Yeah. So it was off the table for her. She did try it. She shouldn't have tried it. She decided she wanted to try it. She tried it for about a week and she just started to bleed. So like that, that was scary. And so I said, well, you're not doing that. Why are you doing that? So that stopped. Um, I think with Nicole, in all honesty, she's that person that doesn't go and get it sorted out. You know, she, there's a, there's a big cupboard full of tablets and things that she's put in herbal shops and all of these, all of these potions that have never been opened that are in there that are meant to help with legs and, and sleeping and, and all of that. But I found, you know? Yeah. I, I try and find, I think I try to find a mal version of treatment for every symptom If you know, if you know what I mean? I think, well that help if I do that or lets do this, it'll help that. And, you know, stuff like that. And sometimes she doesn't want to hear my, my treatments

Ann Marie: 17:17

I do love, I've heard you offer her a cake or a, it's nice. I think it's really nice. And walking is actually one of like a really evidence-based way. in menopause. Like there, I think they did a survey of their, you know, 91 studies and they found really high efficacy for improving menopause symptoms. And I mean, everything is better after a walk, right? You just shift your

Joe: 17:39

mood, your dolphins have moved. It is good for you anyway. She, she, she suffers with a bit of joint pain as well. And she's never, I don't know if my wife looks incredible, believe it or not. She has, I've been with her 20 years. I think I've seen her go to the gym once. She doesn't do anything. So walking bruh. Was it like a form of exercise and a couple of times like during lockdown, she's doing two, three hours a day because it just helps her mood.

Ann Marie: 18:04

The Real Housewives of Cheshire did, uh, a documentary, like a, uh, a special on menopause. Can you talk about how that kind of came about? You guys were on it.

Joe: 18:13

Yeah, well, I, I personally think they ripped my TikTok off. It's just a coincidence that it was, it was put together about six months after I started. It was an opportunity that come up every year. We, we, we kind of, they've lost a few years. They've done a special, a different type of, show, but with some of the cast. Um, this year we just done pride. They did a cruising one year before I wasn't on that. And then we did the menopause. And it was really interesting because what we met doing that was a wide range of women with so many different stories. I mean, we met a 14 which unfortunately they didn't, they didn't show because they thought it was a bit, it was a bit heavy for what they wanted to make. But when you, when you listen to that stuff and, and, you know, what she's gone through and all these different women, all the different journeys, all the different jobs, all the different kids and all, all the stuff. And all, some people's husbands have left them, you know, and some people's marriages are okay. And this happens and that happens. And you go, I didn't realize what, I didn't realize what a big thing it was. It's the truth. Even before the, the menopause show, it just taught me so much. So, you know, especially the other men in our cast, they knew less than me. Cause by that point I'd learned a bit by women really communicate. The only way I've learned is women have communicated with me via TikTok. That's all. I've not read anything. Um, And I've got to do things like I wore a menopause vest for 24 hours, like one of the first ones in the world because you're the symptoms of a, of a woman, uh, for, for 24 hours. Yeah. You're never going to, you're never going to feel this show. You're never going to, and it's probably true, but it is not nice getting hot randomly throughout the day. No, it's not. It was horrendous, actually. Um, and she's getting that a lot at the moment and, and it was, it was just that that brought my awareness that showed to, oh my god, this is actually, like, killing people. Like, it's, it's deadly serious. Um, and we got a doctor on there and he was explaining that I find this really interesting, actually. Women are still going into the menopause at the same age as they were 200 years ago. But they now believe the first human that will live to 150 is currently breathing. So the average age is well over 80 now, but women are still having menopause at let's say 40 to 50. So you've got to live now for a lot longer with the ailments that are going to be caused by your menopause. And we need to adapt to that. And when he was telling me this, I was sitting there thinking, this is really serious. Like nature ain't going to change, but we're living longer because of food, all my, you know, all this different stuff, uh, medical care. But if we don't do something and educate ourselves on what's going to be happening to our bones in this, to our wife's body or her body, she's going to have huge problems in later life and it's going to get worse. And I found that so interesting when I was on that show and it was just, it was just more educational. And I think it was, it was, it was, it was received really well on TV because I think it's real. You know, the show we're on is a reality show and it's, and it's real, but it's a very glamorized show. The menopause is the menopause.

Ann Marie: 21:24

I am so impressed because so many people say, Oh, we used to die at 50. And um, that's why it's so bad because now we're living past 50 and it's not true. Like we, and you really nailed it. You nailed it with the help of that doctor is like, it's kind of like been described as an evolutionary mismatch. Like we're just living longer and a lot of stuff is going on in our environment that may have sort of made it worse and we're hearing, you know, I, I brought a lot of things into my perimenopause and I sort of compare it to like when you start losing those hormones, it's sort of like the tide going out on a beach and leaving a bunch of garbage there and then you got to kind of clean up the garbage Like, I brought a lot of things into my perimenopause, overwork and gut issues and whatever, I wondered if you thought that Nicole had had any of that, like, she worked really hard or she, you know, having cancer when she was young, like the stress and trauma of that. if any of those things might have played a part.

Joe: 22:25

I think that the cancer played her mom went into the minute she went so she went into the menopause about 42 in a car. Um, but her mom did as well. So for her, I think that, you know, and she started, she started a period early. I think she was 11, you know, and whether that has an effect, people debate that. But I think a part of it was her having a hormonal cancer and the effects on her body when she was young, and also part of his nature, just a genes, I think for my mom. Um, but I think I think your stress levels, I think your stress levels will go up when you're in the menopause, I think, because, because of being, just because of being tired, achy and, and everything else, and your brain's functioning differently, you've got a lot more going on than you realise. And there was a period when I said to her, don't make any decisions. like at work, because I was getting really worried about decision making. Because it was, my wife can be quite volcano y anyway, like she's quick to explode and quick to calm down. And I was thinking she's going to, people are going to start getting sacked and she's going to do things that she's going to really regret. I mean, she didn't listen to me, but I could see it coming and I do it sometimes now. It's not often, but like every so often I will literally Take her phone off her and go stop. You can, you can, I mean I'm not doing it in a bullying way, you can have it back in five minutes. But you need to breathe because she doesn't do that. She doesn't go, I've got to reply to this message. I'm going to give it a few hours because he's really annoying me. She goes, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then just put it down for five minutes. Have a cup, have some tea. I'm willing to, you know, distract you and then, then you'll make a better decision. Nah, it's like all advice, isn't it? We don't follow normally good advice, especially when we're in a bad mood.

Ann Marie: 24:16

That's a great, that's a great thing to offer as a partner.

Joe: 24:21

I'm sure she finds it really annoying, but yeah.

Ann Marie: 24:24

What's your advice for, for men who are dealing with this kind of thing?

Joe: 24:29

I mean, I think the number one piece of advice is to communicate. And if that means like sitting the day and sitting down together and going, well, what's going on? I need to know I'm worrying about that. Not, you know, it's really difficult because I think you both need to take into account how the other one is feeling and what's going on for the other one. But that's again, that's, that's part of your successful marriage. But I can't, I can't, the people that I've speak to that haven't made it is because it seems to me to be all communication, really. You know, we don't, we don't want to hear about it. You don't want to tell us. You wanna tell us We don't know about it, or we wanna know, but you don't wanna tell us. Mm-Hmm. you know, and I think that that is, to me, the key to it all. And then finding out what, what works for you and what doesn't have all of the natural treatments, you know, what can you do and what, what, what's, what's right and what's rubbish and what's right for you and, and stuff like that. But communication is number one for me.

Ann Marie: 25:25

I see a lot of people hitting this stage and realizing that they're with an A partner that isn't very supportive. And it's a harsh realization. So I can imagine if you were feeling this way, and your partner wasn't supportive, and you started to think, actually, he's not very supportive overall. And that's, I think, I think that's the reason some relationships end or really, really struggle.

Joe: 25:50

Yeah, I completely agree. I think men can be, there's some, I'm not here to say all men are perfect. There's some, there's some horrible men out there as well as you, you know, horrible women, um, and human beings can be what you want now. So I think that if you've, if you're married to a bastard, you're married to a bastard. Do you know what I mean? So he weren't no good before this. He ain't gonna be no good after it. Yeah. Um, but I think what also goes on for women, you, you might be able to help me here. I think women in perceive that gets this age, we have this, my husband's going to leave me for a younger woman. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I hear that. Really? You know, yeah. Or, you know, and I don't think that many people do do that. I've not even thought about it, but I've heard it, you know, and I think that, I think it just becomes a real worrying period in, in, in your lives.

Ann Marie: 26:45

I think that's something that you grow up hearing. And you worry about, but in reality, I think it's one of those myths because yes, that happens and we have high profile examples, but in reality, when you speak to legal firms, It's women who most of the time initiate divorces in midlife.

Joe: 27:06

Oh, is it?

Ann Marie: 27:06

Yeah. Like I read a report that it was well over 50%. It was a law firm in the UK and they said it's close to 70%. Yeah. So I think it's, you know, women do end up leaving, leaving relationships. Some, and I think this is a time when it happens. I just, the older I get, I feel like there's the things that you think you know, and then you start finding out what actually is the real truth. So I don't know. I think that that might be something we need to shed, like that fear, because it certainly isn't great to have a relationship when you're living in fear that at a certain age, you know. Um, but I, I mean, like I told you, I had it too. I thought when I was 50, that'd be over, that'd be it, you know, no more male attention for me. So, have you noticed any, uh, positive changes in her since she's gone through menopause?

Joe: 27:57

Her boobs are bigger.

Ann Marie: 28:03

Okay, I was thinking spiritual and emotional, but that's okay. That's good.

Joe: 28:07

Yeah. And she sleeps more. No, I'll be honest. I don't think she's, except for perimenopause, if you take that two years at, I don't think she's changed very much. Um, as a person, I'm sure she has, but I'm sure I have, she's 50 as well now nearly. I'm nine years younger than my wife, you know, I'm 41. She took me out of the playground when she met me because I've been with her a long time, you know, but, um, I think where we, where we've, where we've been together for so long and like there's been periods of my life where I've had problems, like I'm an addict and, you know, she's lived through that. And I think that we've got that relationship where she stood by me for so much stuff that nothing can be as bad as that, if you know what I mean. So, It's just another, it's just another thing to work through like it's like the kids are or like, I mean, not, not like the car, not like the car breaking down, but you know, okay, you're hot. Yeah, we are hot. What can we do about that? I mean, I mean, don't get me wrong. It's not great. I have all of the windows open and a fan on the bedroom every month of the year, whether it's snowing or anything. And she makes me lay. She likes the side of the bed that's not next to the window. So I'm, I'm, I'm on the window side with it open. But if I lay on my side, I'm a window blocker. Oh, I can't lie on my back because I might snore. Yep. So I lay on my back to a point and then when she rolls over, then I can roll over. And it's that little, do you not want to sleep next to the window? No, no, I've never slept that side. I don't sleep that side. You know, I sleep this side. Oh, okay. Done. Oh my God. But I find it quite humorous, but you know, I just find, I go, Oh, what's going on? Nicole, how does, what is it like when you can't sleep? How are you able to like explain it? And then explain what it's like sleeping next to it, you know, so you've got a serious, a serious aspect of it, like how she's feeling and then me on the other side, but we are living it with it. So, yes, you know, I find it humorous and I can make jokes out of it, but I am living with it. And if I didn't do that, I don't know what I'd do.

Ann Marie: 30:40

You've been through a lot. You're a former footballer. You struggle with addiction. Uh, you've had a lot of ups and downs. And you're 41. A lot of people say men are experiencing andropause, which is the male menopause. Have you had any feelings that you might have low testosterone or any problems sleeping or brain fog yourself?

Joe: 31:02

No, not yet, but I've been hearing more and more and more about it. And I think it is, I think it is a thing. I think a lot of men, a lot of men now are becoming more open to testing anyway. Like I've had all my tests, my blood's done. And I, and I was fine. I have a friend, Adam Dunn, and he's, he's like, he was practically dead. So, you know, yeah. Right. Unbelievably low levels of everything.

Ann Marie: 31:26

And Matt's taking, Matt was telling me all about his testosterone journey too. And he's like very bullish on testosterone therapy.

Joe: 31:34

Matt said to me, because he's been doing it for about 12 months now, that he feels better now, um, dealing with it than he did when he was 20. Yeah. You know, and he's probably right because you're finding the right balance for your body because we never probably have great balance for a long period of time. Again, I think men will go, Oh, that's not for me. And, but your health is so important and your mood and it is important for even the working, you know, if I'm tired or I'm not thinking straight, um, or I'm angry or it was one too tired. I, you know, I don't work properly. So now I haven't got, I haven't come across that yet. My wife might say my mood is sometimes, but medically. I'm not, but I do think it is a, I do think it is a thing. And when I first heard about it, I thought, I'm going to take the piss out of this. This can't be real. Um, but it definitely is. And I think we all need to be aware of it and just, it's part of life, you know, why not deal with it?

Ann Marie: 32:33

Well, I just, I love you guys. I think you're really funny and I'm really happy that I got to connect with you. Where can people engage with you now? So I'm on, I'm on Instagram and I'm on TikTok. Uh, I think on Instagram, I'm a bit rubbish at this bit. I'm Joe Seely on Instagram and on TikTok. I'm Joe underscore Seely one. I think. Um, but if you type menopause man and I come up or men, hashtag men living with the women with the menopause. I come up as well. You can find me on there and I just post our journey really. She's not in a lot of it. She doesn't know about a lot of them all the time. It's you hiding in the bathroom when she's.

Joe: 33:09

It's my safety cocoon. And the show, The Real Housewives of Cheshire, where, where is that at? And when, where can people see it? it's on in 36 countries. It's actually, uh, in Canada. You can, and you, hey, you in Canada, I think, uh, America it's on there. Uh, we was on in Russia. It's on ITV in England, in Dubai. I think you're on Amazon.

Ann Marie: 33:32

Oh, good. Okay. Well, I have to thank you for talking about this or showing that we're showing the example of what a supportive male partner is. Like I think, you know, that's, that was really meaningful to me. I have never gotten married and there's just like, seeing that is just so like, Oh, you know, that exists. And I think for a lot of women, that's why there's so many people that are following you because you're doing it.

Joe: 33:55

My wife's going to hate it. You said that. I just keep playing with Pete in the kitchen. Okay.

Ann Marie: 34:06

I'm happy to furnish you with that, with that clip. Okay. Thank you so much, Joe. I really appreciate it.

Joe: 34:11

Thank you very much.

34:15

Hot Flash Inc. was created and is hosted by Anne Marie McQueen, produced and edited by Sonia Mack. The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational purposes only and is not intended for the purpose of diagnosing, treating, curing, or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider, read all labels, and heed all directions and cautions that accompany the products. Information podcast should not be used in place of a consultation or advice from a healthcare provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem, i. e. menopause or anything else, or any healthcare questions, please promptly see your healthcare provider. This podcast, including Anne Marie McQueen and any producers or editors, disclaim any responsibility from any possible adverse effects from the use of any information contained herein. Opinions of guests on this podcast are their own and the podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about a guest's qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. Individuals on this podcast may have direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein. This podcast is owned by Hot Flash Inc Media.